I can relate to the envy. Although, mine is more envy over who I am and aren't rather than what I have and haven't. And for me, I think it's rooted in a lack of control I have in making myself who I think I want to be rather than who God says I ought to be. You're description of theosis is one that I have a hard time with. I don't think it's wrong - just it makes me uneasy. Unmaking ourselves and remaking ourselves more Christlike. I have a hard time seeing that as much different than a Christian version of nirvana. What God's plan for us to become sounds in some ways like losing ourselves in oblivion. And that's why I don't like it, because it means I have to completely relinquish all control over myself.
Have you ever thought about it like that? If so, how did you overcome it?
I wish I could respond on my computer at work. Instead it’s going to be phone typed. Be forewarned if uncomfortable autocorrects…
Re: envying who other people ARE, yes, totally. I can relate completely with that. It used to be so bad that I felt my being collapse when talking to people who seemed to radiate *confidence*. It’s still an issue at times, but it got better one night when I asked Jesus how much longer I’d have to endure being myself. I’ll avoid claiming that “the Lord told me” something, because it’s likely crap, but I’ll say this: I realized I could be the man I wanted to be RIGHT NOW. There was no waiting or entrance exam. I could be that man right then. And so I decided to be.
It was a rocky start, though. You have to learn what a man is before you can be one. It’s still a work in progress, but at least most of the chains are off.
Theosis: I shouldn’t try to respond to that one with my thumbs. But I get it. I wrestled with it too. It seems supremely arrogant. Dangerous even. But how is it different than saying we should be more Christlike, or that we should expunge our will and replace it with His? If we were truly full of grace, we’d be pretty Gid-like, wouldn’t we?
I’m reading The Jesus Prayer by Frederica Matthewes-Green. She explains these things way better than me. I’ll shoot you the relevant passages ASAP.
As far as losing oneself, or relinquishing control, yes, that’s so hard it seems like a pipe dream. You have two choices though: Get there by 1. Completely abandoning yourself through the steady application of wisdom, self-abnegation and asceticism, or, as is the case for a lot of us, 2. Getting hooked up to a fusion-powered industrial butt-kicking machine until your attitude improves.
There’s really no alternative here: self-will that isn’t at least partially tempered with divine will is doomed. And really - what is it that we’re holding onto, anyway? What is better than what God wants for us?
To simply say, "Yeah, I know" would be such an assumption, not to mention, well, pompous, at the very least. Just let me say I've been through a long, very painful experience that never hinted at ending. I worked hard at accepting my life as simply the sum total of all the days that had come before and that was "the house that I built. Then almost out of nowhere, it was over. Gone. The "me" that considered throwing in the proverbial towel was gone too. Peace had arrived with the bonus of spontaneous giggling. I wasn't losing my mind and after some serious thought, I was able to identify the nearly forgotten feeling: I was happy!
I'm gonna have to look up "Cibola". What I do know, now, is that it's there and is, indeed, very shiny. And it's waiting for you.
Hey Chris!
I can relate to the envy. Although, mine is more envy over who I am and aren't rather than what I have and haven't. And for me, I think it's rooted in a lack of control I have in making myself who I think I want to be rather than who God says I ought to be. You're description of theosis is one that I have a hard time with. I don't think it's wrong - just it makes me uneasy. Unmaking ourselves and remaking ourselves more Christlike. I have a hard time seeing that as much different than a Christian version of nirvana. What God's plan for us to become sounds in some ways like losing ourselves in oblivion. And that's why I don't like it, because it means I have to completely relinquish all control over myself.
Have you ever thought about it like that? If so, how did you overcome it?
Jimmy
I wish I could respond on my computer at work. Instead it’s going to be phone typed. Be forewarned if uncomfortable autocorrects…
Re: envying who other people ARE, yes, totally. I can relate completely with that. It used to be so bad that I felt my being collapse when talking to people who seemed to radiate *confidence*. It’s still an issue at times, but it got better one night when I asked Jesus how much longer I’d have to endure being myself. I’ll avoid claiming that “the Lord told me” something, because it’s likely crap, but I’ll say this: I realized I could be the man I wanted to be RIGHT NOW. There was no waiting or entrance exam. I could be that man right then. And so I decided to be.
It was a rocky start, though. You have to learn what a man is before you can be one. It’s still a work in progress, but at least most of the chains are off.
Theosis: I shouldn’t try to respond to that one with my thumbs. But I get it. I wrestled with it too. It seems supremely arrogant. Dangerous even. But how is it different than saying we should be more Christlike, or that we should expunge our will and replace it with His? If we were truly full of grace, we’d be pretty Gid-like, wouldn’t we?
I’m reading The Jesus Prayer by Frederica Matthewes-Green. She explains these things way better than me. I’ll shoot you the relevant passages ASAP.
As far as losing oneself, or relinquishing control, yes, that’s so hard it seems like a pipe dream. You have two choices though: Get there by 1. Completely abandoning yourself through the steady application of wisdom, self-abnegation and asceticism, or, as is the case for a lot of us, 2. Getting hooked up to a fusion-powered industrial butt-kicking machine until your attitude improves.
There’s really no alternative here: self-will that isn’t at least partially tempered with divine will is doomed. And really - what is it that we’re holding onto, anyway? What is better than what God wants for us?
To simply say, "Yeah, I know" would be such an assumption, not to mention, well, pompous, at the very least. Just let me say I've been through a long, very painful experience that never hinted at ending. I worked hard at accepting my life as simply the sum total of all the days that had come before and that was "the house that I built. Then almost out of nowhere, it was over. Gone. The "me" that considered throwing in the proverbial towel was gone too. Peace had arrived with the bonus of spontaneous giggling. I wasn't losing my mind and after some serious thought, I was able to identify the nearly forgotten feeling: I was happy!
I'm gonna have to look up "Cibola". What I do know, now, is that it's there and is, indeed, very shiny. And it's waiting for you.
"...and Cibola shines in the distance."